Besmirched with appeasement, surrender, caving in to Russian demands - a venial sin!

Dear Tim,

Thanks for your comments. It is clear that you are on a different trajectory regarding Ukraine, and, judging from our recent discussion in the branch you are not alone. In that regard, when I send my piece to the NC later today to aid the discussion, I will make it clear that it is supported by just three members, not the whole branch.

In my view, the majority of comments at the national level lie somewhere between the views of myself, Michael and Bob WF, and yourself. However, we should recall that what unites everyone within Left Unity is that we are internationalists, not nationalists. The struggle against capitalist oppression is an international struggle, uniting the oppressed across borders.

Having said we are not nationalists does not mean we are neutral in national disputes however. For democratic reasons, we support the right of oppressed nations’ self-determination against a more powerful oppressor nation. In common parlance we ‘support the little guy’. That is true for Ireland against British imperialism, the Catalans against the Spanish state, and is true for Ukraine against Great Russian chauvinism, without supporting Ukrainian nationalist ideology I stress again.

The tussle within Ukraine between those opting for European or Russian capitalism was a bit of a Hobson’s choice; the forces leading the Euromaidan uprising were right wing, but the pro-Russian forces around the oligarch Yanukovych were no less so. The option of a socialist independent Ukraine was unfortunately not on the table; the true left was very weak and marginalised.

In my view, the desire to orient towards European capitalism was a distorted and refracted rejection of Russian dominance, but one that offered no solution to the problems of Ukrainian working people. However, to side with Yanukovych and his alliance with Russian gangster capitalism and subservience was not an option; that would play right into the hands of the Ukrainian nationalists.

The response of Putin’s Russia was not to open a comradely democratic dialogue with the new Ukraine about why they felt a divorce was necessary, but to pile on the Russian nationalist pressure, leading up to today’s intensified situation. We cannot side with that. Despite the reactionary nature of the new Ukrainian leadership, we look beyond it to the unequal status between the two countries and support the underdog.

Now, was there Western meddling in the Euromaidan protests? I don’t know, but possibly. The point however is that you cannot magic up a mass movement capable of overthrowing a vicious repressive leader out of thin air. The sentiment must already be there amongst huge sections of society.

And as for mass uprisings versus pro-capitalist parliamentary democracy, that is another big debate which I can only touch on here. For us there is no doubt that an eco-socialist society cannot be achieved by Parliamentary means (which does not mean that you ignore the Parliamentary process or take part in it when appropriate). The Russian, Yugoslav, Chinese and Cuban revolutions are pretty good evidence of that premise; the oppressed majority have to impose their will upon the exploiting minority and Parliamentary democracy will be dispensed with by our rulers if it comes to that situation. But you can’t equate the Euromaidan uprising with, say, Trump’s storming of the White House. One, despite its right-wing leadership was objectively against a neighbouring great power and the other was for strengthening domestic reaction and imperialism.

I was going to go into this further, but I think it’s time to stop rabbiting here.

Thanks Bob, for this thoughtful and knowledgeable response that I cannot disagree with and is perfectly reasonable in every way.

My point is simply that the impatient protestors who could not wait to win an election to overthrow Yanukovych got their way but, at an enormous cost.  It was just not worth it, was it?

Better to win change by working behind the scenes and only publicly protesting when you know you are not going to get arrested or shot at, as happened in 2014 in Kyiv.

Does LU think that NATO should agree with Russia that Ukraine should not be offered NATO membership in the forseeable future?

Or, is that the dreaded appeasement that our opponents would besmirch us with?

That it would encourage the Evil Empire to take another step westwards in their expansion aims of Communist/Russian world domination, as some would see it?